Yup Google Docs Confirm Moto Gets An Edge–Other OEMs Screwed
There was lots of speculation about what the Google-Motorola Mobility merger would mean. Would they get an strategic advantages? Would other OEMs get hurt? Well we have some answers thanks to a Google internal presentation from the Oracle lawsuit. The answer is: Yes and Yes. Here is the Google document:
Foss Patents speculates as follows:
Can you imagine that a company like Samsung, HTC, LG or Sony could still trust Google in this regard if Google actually competes with them through a subsidiary?
If Google already intended to give privileged access to Motorola in the past, how can anyone seriously believe that if the acquisition of Motorola Mobility was closed, a wholly owned Google subsidiary named Motorola Mobility would not enjoy key privileges over its competitors?
Let’s throw more fuel on the fire though. Turns out there was also an admission by Google and it confirms that Oracle’s code was used in Google’s Java impermissibly. Joshua Bloch is a Google engineer that used to work at Sun and he admitted that he had access to Sun code when writing for Google:
Q. BY MR. JACOBS: Do you have a recollection of accessing Sun code while you were working on TimSort?
A. I don’t have a recollection, but I’m perfectly willing to believe that I did. You know, I think the similarity of the signature, the fact that, you know, the three arguments are in the same order and have the same name, you know, is a strong indication that it is likely that I did.
He admitted that he wanted the code to work the same way and throw the same exceptions.
Well none of this really matters. Google will likely just buy its way out of this mess like it does when it infringes on the law or screws people. Just sweep sweep sweep. They’ve got a huge rug, don’t worry, it’ll all fit.
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The Nexus Prime will surely be sammys last google branded device. We will see the Nexus M next.
I’m sure some will “speculate” as to how this will be the thing tha pushes android past the iTurds, and/or how this will bring Moto back from the… where ever the hell they are. And all that may very well be true.
But I just don’t see how this DOES NOT help MS. :-/
I don’t expect OEMs to exodus away from Android platform in the near future, but they will likely slowly shift their resources elsewhere possibly to Windows Phone platform.
Explains why verizon wont give WP7 the time of day too.
This items you’ve highlighted are pre-merger policies. The specific mention of Motorola and Verizon? Those happened to be the two partners for the most recent (to date) Lead device – the Motorola Xoom. They could just have well sited the T-Mobile/HTC partnership. Or has it skipped your notice that it looks like Samsung will have partnered to produce two consecutive lead devices (Nexus S and, most likely, Nexus Prime).
Regarding the Foss Patent snippet – Again, Motorola was just one of their lead device partners. They’ve had three such partners, and that in an industry with a relatively small number of big players in the Android camp. This is FUD.
The source code issue. What in the world does this have to do with the original point of your post? Why the Google hate this morning – did your baseball team lose yesterday, or maybe Larry Page stole your parking spot this morning? As a software engineer, I can say the snippet you provided is not at all telling. Three variables with the same name in the same order – not a big deal. Algorithms stolen line-for-line from someone else’s code – yeah, that’s a problem, but the quote doesn’t imply that. Jump to conclusions if you’d like, but I’d have to see the code in question before I pass judgement one way or another.
Oh, and your infringement comment? Dude. I guarantee you that all the big players – Microsoft, Google, Apple, Motorola, LG, Nokia… all are infringing on each other’s patents. People can and do patent just about anything these days. There are so many patents relating to the phone industry that you’re guaranteed to infringing on something you, or the patent owner, know it or not. Buy your way out and sweep under the rug isn’t a Google thing, it’s the state of the industry.
So you don’t like Google. Got it. But your post – I don’t see your point.
As much as I want to believe you David the significance you find in the revelations of this “internal” Powerpoint slide sounds overstated and desperately hopeful on your part, as is to be expected.
This isn’t high school, coming in for lunch and wishing you could sit at the cool table with Motorola, Verizon and Google. HTC and Samsung are already friendly with Microsoft and they’ve been doing quite well with Google. So have T-Mobile, AT&T and Sprint. You know what will nudge them “slowly shift their resources” to Windows Phone? If Microsoft would illustrate that there is a viable market for Windows Phone, even if they have to artificially create one.
Microsoft has failed to do that. Or they have chosen not to. Could they have tried harder? Yes? Then they chose not to, or half-assed it hoping this game would be easier for them because of how much better the UI is than WinMo or even iOS and Android. There are plenty of virtues in WP, but for now, virtues seen and enjoyed only by the people who already own a WP. OEMs, not so much. Maybe this was largely an experiment on Microsoft’s part as well as the OEMs who dipped their feet in this water.
WP’s share has been dead flat for months, and the point at which it flattened is kind of close to zero percent. All this Mango excitement, the vote of confidence from Nokia, Tango, Asian markets, all this recent resurgence of some ludicrous statistic that it will be number two in 2015, Googarola, Japanese youtube clips — not even a bump in sales. One might think that without the recent noise there would actually be attrition right now. That’s got to be seen as an underwhelming potential return on suddenly heavier investments OEMs might make into Windows Phone just because Motorola might get to slap their interface on top of the latest version of Android before HTC does, if that is in fact the case according to this slide.
The slide mentions critical mass. That’s an important term. The help from having achieved critical mass is what Windows Phone needs to achieve some success, and they don’t have that. Since Microsoft only appears interested in using patents to profit from Android licensing rather than using that power to give Windows Phone a nudge, you’re not going to get that critical mass boost from patent litigation (sorry). You’re not going to get that nudge because HTC feels like Google’s snubbing them too much. Windows Phones are in stores now, a bunch of different phones. If you think that there being a couple more phones on that rack will make any difference, I’d tell you that you’re overstating the significance of those extra models.
Microsoft is a powerful company, is it not? I see on WMPU when people bring up Microsoft not doing everything it could some guy come back and say Hey man it’s the OEMs’ responsibility to promote it not Microsoft’s.
You sure about that? Microsoft needs to promote this sucker to you, to carriers and to the OEMs, provided they still give a shit, and by care I mean care about it more than just as something to sort of let ride on cruise control for the time being, see if this Nokia thing goes well, play it by ear later, sell some XBoxes. I have no idea how that is Samsung’s responsibility much more than it is Microsoft’s and the carriers or why they’d take an interest in assuming that as their responsibility. From where I’m sitting, and maybe from where you’re sitting, it appears that Nokia is making a very nominal effort to honor their commitment to Windows Phone which as I understood it initially was putting a fairly decisive and abrupt halt on every other platform they use and go full throttle on WP because that’s obviously the best business decision. Yet they only do that in the US, the one place they don’t have a noteworthy presence. Seems like they’re doing everything they can to hedge this bet they made.
If Nokia were to actually seize WP and really go all out on it, rather than an almost no risk move that they’ve announced, and one of these internal Powerpoints testifying to that leaked onto the conference tables of HTC and Samsung, now that would be something to lure further OEM investment. But because Nokia’s doing the opposite and that tells me they’ve seen the inside of the cave from a better vantage point than I have, and if that’s their reaction, to hedge the Microsoft bet, I sure as hell am not going to race in. Nokia could have underscored this to other OEMs as a good idea; they’re doing the opposite. Why aren’t you talking about that?
As wonderful as Windows Phone may be, and I tried it, I know it’s terrific and to think it’s even more terrific with this Mango and some newer phones coming blows my mind, Microsoft has done a good job presenting it to these phone companies as a toxic opportunity. And while you have it in a Powerpoint slide of dubious chronological origin that Google’s OEM playing field might not be perfectly even, it’s right in Microsoft’s SEC filings that theirs won’t be either. This is not helpful to Windows Phone, it is only helpful to those looking for any reason to grab onto to think that there’s hope of everyone regretting they got in bed with Android.
Because that’s what you do when you’re not wishing success on WP — you’re wishing doom on Android. Or you’re multitasking the two.
Windows Phone has produced some valuable information, and that is just how little room there is in the smartphone market for a third contender these days. And Microsoft doesn’t appear inclined to get anywhere nearly as aggressive with WP as they need to be. But they could. However maybe it’s just obvious to them that it’s not a good business move, pushing it any harder, and if that’s true, you can’t really fault them for that.
I wish you luck, I know this market share stuff is important to you, I want you to have some, but sorry folks, this Motorola thing will prove to be yet another disappointment as another beacon of your platform’s escape from obscurity.
tl;dr nothing to see here
To be quite frank, that sounds like the policy BEFORE the merger.
1) What’s wrong with withholding the source code till it’s ready?
2) People have practically been begging Google to try and enforce some kind of standard. Giving priority to those phones that are “stock.” is nothing new.
@Doug Simmons: Whoah dude, this is longer than the patent suit itself. Read the Foss Patent links. Foss is legit. Pretty much on top of all of the happenings and all of the filings and I think they have a solid track record. They have hit Google lately. I guess patent guys don’t love patent violators…Anyway, they’re first on most ‘patent’ stories because it’s their niche so read their take on it.
In other words, I’m reporting what they’re reporting so hammer them, not me.
@Davidk: Question is. are you saying, you’re just repeating what they are saying or adding your own comments? From what it looks like it’s the later and you agree with them.
Most of the time i might not agree with what you guys say, but feel you have a well thought out point. This time is not one of them.
Actually I did read it.
But I didn’t realize you were just meta-reporting without any of your own personal affirmation added to the news as the way I got to them was by right clicking and doing a reverse Google image search on the slide, then they came up. Clicked over and read it, came back and wrote a lot. Figured you didn’t disagree with what they said, in particular what is implied by someone taking the time to red box and write an article about that fragment of this slide or document.
FOSS is legit. It’s what powers our site, WMPU’s, WPCentral’s, WinRumor’s. The only sites I found in your world not powered by FOSS belong to Paul Thurrott. Gives him a few credibility points in my book.
But it is cute, you know, to see all these people everywhere ripping on Android which is Linux while actually using Linux themselves to do that without even knowing it. Lol, David.
As for FOSS Patents the blog, hadn’t read them before but I’ll add it to my list.
“You sure about that? Microsoft needs to promote this sucker to you, to carriers and to the OEMs”
No, what they need to do is start threatening OEMs and carriers with Windows 8. Fine, you don’t support Windows Phone, you don’t get Windows 8 in any form whatsoever. Then they need to threaten to put considerable resources behind building a phone and ecosystem that bypasses carriers entirely, which means no more $100/month wireless bills. How do they do that? Lync, Skype, and WLM. Pour tons of resources into it, and f*ck these carriers anyway possible.
Google plays hardball. It’s time for Microsoft to play hardball, vicious style.
“But it is cute, you know, to see all these people everywhere ripping on Android which is Linux while actually using Linux themselves to do that without even knowing it. Lol, David.”
Nobody is using Linux. Less than 1% market share does not equate to using Linux, and I don’t considering Android the same thing, despite the fact it’s built on a Linux kernel.
As for Google, they deserve all the sh*t they’re getting. When they stop stealing from other companies, and instead build their own software instead of coasting off the work of other companies, then it will stop. If you can’t build it without violating the patents, then license them.
“Explains why verizon wont give WP7 the time of day too.”
Microsoft could force Verizon’s hand if they wanted too. The problem is they aren’t worth the effort.
Wow, hate on Android much? I didn’t realize that mobility digest was so anti-android…
@argolfermd: Sadly I think I’m the only real Android fan here… 🙁
Not Linux? When I get on the command line it sure feels like Linux, and when I ran Ubuntu and X on my Nexus it /really/ felt like Linux.
Joe’s right, I forgot to mention things like denying Best Buy any of this if they don’t also sell that and also vendor lock-in and other ugly tactics that have had a long ongoing history of not always being kosher with various governments and unions of governments and consumer advocates. But I’ll stop short of agreeing with him as they just don’t have the leverage they once did to break into a no-longer nascent market by those means.
As for Microsoft taking over the wireless carrier industry as a means to promote WP, if you think that’s an option Joe, they should maybe team up with Google which has some footing to share. Maybe call Netflix, they don’t like carriers and ISPs. C’mon man.
Not quite nobody Joe, just the Windows Phone fan blogs. They’re using Linux. I am too, also OpenBSD. Oddly, the guy that’s not always automatically pro-Microsoft is running IIS on Windows instead of Apache or nginx on top of Linux.
What exactly is Google getting? I haven’t been reading the news lately, did something big happen to them? Is Microsoft even suing them over Android yet?
As for Android not being Linux, I was on the command line with it the other day, mounting and chmodding and grepping and tailing and topping and ./make installing and apache2ctl -k starting and I guess I got confused. My apologies! Maybe I mistook some sort of spiritual Linux connection for what it said on /etc/motd. You have to admit, Joe, that it would be more manly for the Windows lovers to love Windows publicly on Microsoft systems, not FOSS.
Verizon not being worth the effort, if you mean for the goal of turning WP into a success, Verizon would be more instrumental than any other American carrier in terms of subscriber reach. I don’t know how you think Microsoft could actually pressure Verizon to abandon Android and the iPhone in favor of Android. How?
The problem might be, Joe, that getting Windows Phone to succeed may not be “worth the effort.” Everything you suggested that wasn’t just too absurd not to assume you’re joking would be too expensive, too illegal or otherwise would entail too much blowback from consumers and companies they’d otherwise have good relations with.
Why should Microsoft see to it that Windows Phone sees double digit market share? What’s the point? Don’t they have many other things to sell that aren’t as impossible to push?
I was telling the other guys that the scene in the Windows Phone world, the general enthusiasm and stability, reasonableness, was imploding. Some of the things you said, unless it was satire, affirms that. Keep in mind Joe that people are still buying Windows Phones faster than they’re switching away from them. By attrition I meant attrition in market share, not install base. Your guys are doing better every day, one day at a time, relative to themselves. There will be more of you tomorrow than there are today, more apps, more developers, … more, but at the same rate relative to the More speed of the other guys.
Nice work beating out webOS, forgot to mention that. Terrific stuff.
@kristofer brozio: I like Android devices and I am more sold on them now than ever since using Gingerbread. Hate MotoBlur, but the battery life has improved. I am trying to trade my Streak for a SGS2.