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MobilityLeaks: The Great Windows Phone 8 Debate

It’s Friday and it looks like all the writers have checked out for the day. However, a healthy discussion on Windows Phone 8 has been happening behind the scenes so I thought we would go ahead and fire up another edition of MobilityLeaks!

David K: Did we know that WP8 is launching in October? That’s what Elop said. Guess what – October 26 is going to be Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8…according to me 😉

Rama Uppugunduri: Can’t wait for that day

Albert Bunn: Meh. Seriously, why can’t we just let it die? I know I sound critical to some of ya’all, but there’s just been no results from it. When Microsoft screwed all the users of real Windows Mobile over by deciding to quit cold turkey, that was a slap in the face that just doesn’t go away for customers. At least Google stepped in with an acceptable “sequel” to Windows Mobile 6 for customers, and at very least they did something right based on the current market share.

In the end, sales have shown that iPhone clones (even ones that run Windows Mobile 6) don’t sell no matter who makes them.

RIP Microsoft Mobile.

Evan Powell: The problem with using market share as your sales compass is that you have to be completely ignorant of the past.  The smartphone market didn’t start with the iPhone and it won’t end with it (clearly not now when it’s not WW #1).

Stuff changes.  And then, my signature comes into play…

Form Rises To Meet Function.

David K: WM should have died. But I’m not sure why Google is off the hook here. Most of their phones don’t get updated. F$%#, even Apple doesn’t update all of their older phones – they just have the sense to call it iOS6 even though on older devices it’s crippled.

After F$#%ing around with WM for all that time I’m glad to be done with it and happy to move on to a device that works out of the box and never needs a reboot. WP is fast as shit and solid. The OS is way beyond Android in terms of stability and battery life and that’s something Android always promises to fix and always fails at.

Rama Uppugunduri: Microsoft should have called Windows Phone 7.8 as just Windows Phone 8 and tell some of the functionality wont work on older devices. After all that’s what Apple does with iPhones. good example is Siri. Who cares whether the kernel is WinCE or WinNT as long as it supports the older apps that users bought from Marketplace. That should have put “Meh sayers” and internet asshole journalists on ZDNET, Engadget, CNET etc. shut their fuck up. I don’t know why Microsoft wanted to be honest in this case? who really cares what type of kernel that ding uses, I wonder except the naysayers of the windows phone.

Rama Uppugunduri: And one more thing, Google never tells anyone about what functionality would work on what device. It is up to device makers and members of XDA to decide :-). proud to be a member of XDA.

Murani Lewis: Seriously, lets not do the whole Android is where its at thing. Microsoft has made the correct and bold choice to position itself for the long term.

I love my Windows Phone and , like David, I value the ability and thoughtfulness the Windows Phone team has put into the platform. Microsoft has long money so you might want to buckle in.

Windows Phone 8 is just as big a leap as Mango was from WP7.5. By all accounts Microsoft has caught up with WP8 and in some ways surpassed iOS and Android.

Ramon Trotman: Dear bunny…. I have been asking this question for a year and some change…. Perhaps you could help me out as I see you are big on sales equal results.

What were the G1 first year numbers?

Doug Smith: SUH-to-the UCK-UCK-UCKED!

Albert Bunn: In the past it appears to have been pretty accurate. I recently researched 2004-2006 “smart device” market share, and I’d have to say they did a pretty good job of reflecting the popularity and sales of those platforms for those time periods. In your own words, The smartphone market didn’t start with the iPhone and won’t end with it.
Not trying to be harsh, I’m really just trying to bring this fact out a bit more.

Evan Powell: What are you avoiding being harsh about exactly?

Doug Smith: The T-Mobile G1 by HTC was rumored to have sold 1 million but HTC said they forecast 600,000 but that’s assuming T-Mobile sold that many.

Albert Bunn: Windows Mobile is now practically dead, mostly because Microsoft killed it.

>>>”But I’m not sure why Google is off the hook here. Most of their phones don’t get updated. Fuck, even Apple doesn’t update all of their older phones – they just have the sense to call it iOS6 even though on older devices it’s crippled.”

Updated with what? I update the software on my Epic all the time. If you use the Android Market “play land” thing, it’ll even notify you of updates. Not that a lot of it even needs updating as they work pretty well out of the starting gate.

>>>”After f$%&ing around with WM for all that time I’m glad to be done with it and happy to move on to a device that works out of the box and never needs a reboot.”

While it is limited in functionality to Windows Mobile 6 and earlier, it is true that the iPhone does not frequently need a reboot.

>>>”WP is fast as shit and solid.”

As any good feature phone or “simple app” OS should be.

>>>”The OS is way beyond Android in terms of stability and battery life”

As is my Nokia 1260.

>>>”something Android always promises to fix and always fails at”

Guess functionality comes at a price…

Albert Bunn: Interesting observation.

>>>”in some ways surpassed iOS and Android.”

In some ways, my Nokia 1260 and Palm m500 surpass my Samsung Epic, but I continue to use my Epic…

>>>”Its not for everyone but nothing is. To each his or her own.”

Absolutely. The buyers see and buy what’s good.

Ramon Trotman: So windows phone did better than android? Hmmmm….and it still has a better growth rate? Hmmmm….so why is everyone worried?

Albert Bunn: I know there was still a small team clinging to WinMo and I didn’t want to step on any toes is all.

Albert Bunn: No growth rate. Mobile 7 stalled and eventually conked out the Microsoft Mobile engines. They can try to restart it all they want by throwing more money into it, but the original iPhone has them too far beat already if you ask me.

Jim Szymanski: Actually the platform has doubled market share the past two quarters. May not be able to double again (to 8%) in Q3 but I am pretty sure they will make up for it in Q4.

Albert Bunn: I don’t see it happening, but time will tell I guess.

Evan Powell: Alright lets cut the shit here.  Justifications shouldn’t acceptable for any OS.  If WP doesn’t get a pass for you for what you deem to be easy tasks, Android as a much more complex OS should receive passes for missing the easier stuff too.
1. He’s clearly talking about system updates. Not app updates.  There’s no reason why there are new devices  released with 3 different versions of the OS.  Some with no official immediate path of upgrading (here’s looking at you Galaxy Note).
2.  Again, you choose to remove Android as a system from your response. There are quite a few of us here who use both OS’s heavily, if not daily (what up Ramon).  Most of our usage concerns from from our actual use, not xda bitching…
3.  Two ways to go here:
A) Android can’t keep up speed wise to simple OSs running far more underpowered hardware
B) that condescending tone toward WP is probably incorrect.
What really kills me is that the S3 has intelligent ways to jump to the top of a list of information (double tap the top bezel), but still studders going DOWN a list of information for the first time (email is a terrific example.  Especially through Exchange).
4.  Again the Galaxy Note is the best example to use here. 2.2 was supposed to be the first version of Android that properly used Hardware Accelerated graphics.  That didn’t happen correctly so then that was pushed back to 2.3 and 3.1.  That only happened for most Tegra devices so then it was supposed to be for ICS.  Same song different tune.  Project Butter is going to show itself on Jelly Bean, Key Lime Pie and more.  Here’s hoping they finally get right in the 4th year.
Bottom line, every OS has its shortcomings and no one here that likes WP is going to deny that they exist (maybe some specific ones that spawn outta BS).  The reason people seem to be excited about WP8 is specifically because MS made it a point to tackle damn near every shortcoming they had.  I will gather that we won’t know the full story until the RTM but changing the core (which makes me happy because they BT stack will be upgrades), having system level VoIP integration, supporting sd cards, native code, direct x , multiple cores and 3.5 to 4.8″ screens with dpi’s over 304 is a big fucking deal.  Feature to feature, there really won’t be much of a competitive advantage that any other OS will be able to offer (That includes coding. Objective C is terrible and the only reason most became comfortable with it is because of the installed base. I challenge anyone here to prove me wrong about that).